tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post1438383637698291522..comments2024-01-01T15:35:12.954-07:00Comments on Simple Utah Mormon Politics: Should Marriott Hotels Sell Pornographic Movies?Frank Stahelihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-46937084642903272742009-04-17T13:59:00.000-06:002009-04-17T13:59:00.000-06:00IT ALL HAS TO DO WITH THE MONEY!!!IT ALL HAS TO DO WITH THE MONEY!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-87784407211888694762008-09-22T00:13:00.000-06:002008-09-22T00:13:00.000-06:00probably not a good idea in Muslim Pakistan, eh?probably not a good idea in Muslim Pakistan, eh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-45919908872659354222008-09-10T23:51:00.000-06:002008-09-10T23:51:00.000-06:00Hillarious! I'm guessing you don't have your child...Hillarious! I'm guessing you don't have your children with you at these 'Computer Conventions'? That you are 'alone' in this hotel room or with another adult? <BR/><BR/>Yet as you say, "The first thing I do when I get to my room is to delete the ability to select anything from the adult movie genre"? <BR/><BR/>Do you not TRUST yourself or your spouse to NOT order a pornographic movie unless it's blocked? Maybe you should dispose of the hotel phone as well, since all it would take is a call to the front desk to UNBLOCK them. Maybe you should make sure there is no internet access in your hotel room as well, since the vast majority of porn is delivered over that medium and you MIGHT not be able to control youself?<BR/><BR/>What goes from 'hillarious' to 'sad' is that you somehow put more emphasis on this because the Marriott family's name is on the hotel. Not recognizing that Marriott International is a large publicly traded company, complete with outside directors, executive management, etc.. Why was Hilton or Hyatt or Sheraton in the title of your article? <BR/><BR/>Marriott Corporation was incorporated in 1927. As a public corporation the LEGAL responsibility of the CEO and Board is to the shareholders, not to Mr Marriott's personal religious beliefs. It has done GREAT things in the way of spreading awareness of the church by the mear fact of having a Book of Mormon in every room. A large portion of the hotel's aren't in fact even owned by Marriott international but by others paying Marriott for management and reservation services.<BR/><BR/>If you have a problem with pornography and the widespread access to it, I would appreciate an article on that rather then a short sighted (bordering on the ignorant) stance you take by using Marriott as a focus.<BR/><BR/>cjsansomSal Galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08100772545981111751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-35297916537555441892008-07-10T05:14:00.000-06:002008-07-10T05:14:00.000-06:00I find your blog very interesting. I do, since I h...I find your blog very interesting. I do, since I had to deal with the <A HREF="http://marriott-international.pissedconsumer.com" REL="nofollow">Marriott</A>. It is a leading lodging company in the United States and other 67 countries of the world. It operates 2.900 lodging properties. At a very informative site, www.pissedconsumer.com, I found lots of negative feed backs in the address of the company. And it turned out to be useful. In my trip, I managed to avoid all the misunderstandings, due to the site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-40430957766285548272008-05-13T07:34:00.000-06:002008-05-13T07:34:00.000-06:00Not that I'm defending the porn industry, because ...Not that I'm defending the porn industry, because I'm not, but could it be that porn is being used as a scape goat to hide other problems...<BR/><BR/>In the case of Ted Bundy and others, if porn did indeed cause these problems, then surely we would have plenty of others with the same problems... Maybe Ted Bundy was just a really bad guy and liked porn. Using porn as an excuse just seems to be a way of avoiding personal responsibility.<BR/><BR/>As for the military, do you really think looking at boobies in Playboy is causing an increase in assaults? Have you considered that more and more females are being accepted into the military and that due to the current war, many of the soldiers are developing mental problems as a result of the stress?<BR/><BR/>If you look hard enough you can probably link porn to any social problems in our society, but if you could somehow remove it, I would bet that most, if not all of those problems remain.Urban Kodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327437055164051853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-40077018425054107772008-05-12T22:16:00.000-06:002008-05-12T22:16:00.000-06:00"But Broun contends that the sales of such materia..."But Broun contends that the sales of such material have contributed to an increase in sexual assaults in the military and other problems."<BR/><BR/>Geez....an increase of assaults and other problems?<BR/><BR/>Should we be concerned?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-18666872951587259712008-05-12T15:30:00.000-06:002008-05-12T15:30:00.000-06:00I wonder how this discussion relates to this news?...I wonder how this discussion relates to <A HREF="http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=109458" REL="nofollow">this news?</A>Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-7045391228475298662008-05-02T11:05:00.000-06:002008-05-02T11:05:00.000-06:00I fell upon this discussion accidentally because I...I fell upon this discussion accidentally because I was thinking of switching into a hospitality career. My idea was to try it out first on a part time scale close to home. The two major hotels in my town are Embassy Suites and the Marriott. How funny my brain worked because when I went to the Embassy Suites site and found they are now owned by Hilton, I was bias and immediately went to the Marriott site. I had it in the back of my head that it was an LDS company and of course that must be a better place to work!<BR/><BR/>Now I sit here with the dilemma of everything you all have pointed out. I actually appreciate it because it forces me to address an issue I did not think of. <BR/><BR/>So on to this problem of whether to offer porn or not offer porn when we ALL know of the effects of it for SOME people. Two points….<BR/><BR/>Point One: <BR/><BR/>Can we afford to take the chance of letting people have free will to choose when we KNOW that some will kill and abuse children and adults? <BR/><BR/>“THE CASES OF GARY BISHOP AND TED BUNDY, SERIAL KILLERS<BR/><BR/>Another example of the effects of pornography comes from Gary Bishop, convicted homosexual pedophile who murdered five young boys in Salt Lake City, Utah, in order to conceal his sexual abuse of them. He wrote in a letter after his conviction: <BR/>"Pornography was a determining factor in my downfall. Somehow I became sexually attracted to young boys and I would fantasize about them naked. Certain bookstores offered sex education, photographic, or art books which occasionally contained pictures of nude boys. I purchased such books and used them to enhance my masturbatory fantasies. <BR/>"Finding and procuring sexually arousing materials became an obsession. For me, seeing pornography was lighting a fuse on a stick of dynamite. I became stimulated and had to gratify my urges or explode. All boys became mere sexual objects. My conscience was desensitized and my sexual appetite entirely controlled my actions." <BR/><BR/>In the case of Ted Bundy, serial killer of possibly 31 young women, he stated in a videotaped interview hours before his execution, "You are going to kill me, and that will protect society from me. But out there are many, many more people who are addicted to pornography, and you are doing nothing about that." While some commentators discounted his linking aggressive pornography to his sex-murders (when he said it fueled his violent thoughts toward women), there seems little doubt that Bundy consumed a great deal of pornography, much of it violent, from an early age.”<BR/><BR/>(From: Pornography's Effects on Adults and Children. By VICTOR B. CLINE, Ph.D.,<BR/>Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Salt Lake City, Utah. http://obscenitycrimes.org/clineart.cfm)<BR/><BR/>Good article I challenge you all to read it. <BR/><BR/>I can imagine that Bishop and Bundy both thought long and hard about what happened to them and how they reached this point in their lives. These people do not have anything to gain by making these revelations except to analyze their path to where it led them and share their experience. Shouldn’t we listen to them? For someone who has not experience this pornography addiction it is impossible to comprehend the devastation that it performs on one’s mind. It seems that those writing in this blog do not, and are simply addressing this issue based on THEIR own experiences and feelings of “I can take it or leave it or I’m smart enough not to go there”. Remember, porn isn’t just pictures of naked bodies anymore. It has become bored with that concept and has moved into the inclusion of violence, children, incest, using instruments and unnatural and degrading acts. Add that to the ease of internet access and poor countries and/or sicko people taking advantage of and torturing the weak, with people willing to pay, where will it all stop? It has been a process from simple naked pornographic pictures to acceptable exploitation to killings and mutilations. No doubt some of you have not seen the movie “The Condemned”? We can all look back and see the progression of the porn of yesterday to what it has become today.<BR/><BR/>“In a society where some types of pornographic material are protected by the Constitution and obscenity laws go unenforced, some individuals may choose to immerse themselves in pornography. These individuals should be made aware of the health hazards involved. This kind of knowledge is most important for parents, since most sexual and pornographic addictions begin in middle childhood or adolescence, most of the time without the parents' awareness or the children have an insufficient understanding of the risks involved.“ (Dr. Victor Cline, see web page above).<BR/><BR/>I don’t see warning labels on the packages. It would disgust me to think that it isn’t enforced because everyone is guilty of it and that Mormons are too naïve to believe the consequences.<BR/><BR/>Point Two:<BR/><BR/>Point two is a mute point after all that.Junkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574176441200022211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-57161916759948690592008-04-29T13:59:00.000-06:002008-04-29T13:59:00.000-06:00You're right. I will admit that part of the reaso...You're right. I will admit that part of the reason I hate pornography being available (and for that matter, gambling) is because I'm afraid what would happen to me if I decided that I liked it.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-68722478026888781652008-04-24T20:28:00.000-06:002008-04-24T20:28:00.000-06:00While the examples cited may indeed seem to be at ...While the examples cited may indeed seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum, perhaps the question that should be asked is whether everyone considers Pornography as a bad thing or if this is a case of one group imposing a specific ideology on another....<BR/><BR/>Once we coerce Marriot into removing the movies, do we then go after any alcohol in mini-bars (If Marriot has these). With that out of the way, we could force them to remove any coffee or tea from the rooms, and I'm sure we could take a few more steps after that. <BR/><BR/>You and I may consider it wrong and offensive, but that may not be the case for another person.Urban Kodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327437055164051853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-31205227834636640682008-04-24T19:18:00.000-06:002008-04-24T19:18:00.000-06:00If we honestly can no longer distinguish between p...If we honestly can no longer distinguish between providing a meaningful service in an economic exchange and preying upon the weaknesses of others, then I believe we are indeed in a sad state.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-86632472591298392432008-04-24T17:17:00.000-06:002008-04-24T17:17:00.000-06:00Holy Cow! Some of you guys need to go to KSL and r...Holy Cow! Some of you guys need to go to KSL and read some of the stuff on there. Some people of the LDS faith are so closed minded, it sickens me. I know Obi Wan will agree. The reason why I say that is because here we have people with understanding talking about how there are some harsh truths of the LDS faith that we have to deal with. <BR/>I know that this is a repeat but I want to put in my two cents, but I don't have any problem with somebody giving the choice of adult movies. Would I partake? No. Do I think that some people would if they had the choice? Yes. If the Marriott decided to stop offering them, would those people find other means of getting pornography? Yes. I do agree with moral aspects of this that derekstaff as pointed out very well, although I disagree with some of his logic. If it were my business, I wouldn't offer it. Personally, I think that choice of not offering it would bring in more profits than offering it. That is my faith though. <BR/>Derekstaff, I have to point out one thing that I extremely disagree on. You said in one of your posts "...we are our brothers keepers, and we betray that role when we enable and profit off their weaknesses." By that logic we are all going to Hell in a hand basket. I will give you an example. Frank is a computer programmer, I am not. Therefore that is my weakness. So when I need a program written and I go to Frank to write it for me and he charges me, he is profiting of my weakness. According to your logic the grocery store is wrong cause you don't grow your own food--your weakness, the bank that holds your mortgage(or landlord if you rent)cause you cant pay cash for your your house--your weakness, the gas station cause you can't produce and refine your own fuel--your weakness, or if you take the bus, UTA is wrong cause you don't have your own means of transportation--your weakness. I think you get my point. Like I said, I do agree that morals should be something looked at every level of any company. I work for a local credit union and have a small supervisory position. I do everything I can to improve our methods of collecting funds and charging fees to what I feel is morally right. It is up to each individual to do the same. Whether it is by asking a corporation to do a way with offering pornography, or simply trying to improve the moral value of your own company. There is no government that can do that for us. That is why the free market is so great. Is it perfect? Of course not. Will it ever be? I doubt it. It is our job to strive to that point though.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16532237715455614152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-32365254722369622862008-04-22T17:23:00.000-06:002008-04-22T17:23:00.000-06:00The Drug of the New Millennium documents the clini...<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Drug-New-Millennium-Pornography-Radically/dp/1930980639" REL="nofollow">The Drug of the New Millennium</A> documents the clinically measured addictive chemistry of porn.<BR/><BR/>I loved Rough Stone Rolling. My 14-year-old is reading my copy right now. When UK says that it contains some material that LDS folks might find difficult to swallow, I think that is because of a phenomenon described by Richard Bushman (the book's author).<BR/><BR/>Bushman said that the church has a Primary (referring to the church's children's auxiliary) version of LDS history where all Mormons wear white hats and their detractors wear black hats. Then there's the anti-Mormon version where the hats are switched, with the Mormons always wearing black hats. Bushman promotes a more informed understanding of LDS history that appreciates the complexities of real life. Like him, I see no dishonor in an open and reasoned study of LDS history.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-8227944709138803822008-04-22T14:33:00.000-06:002008-04-22T14:33:00.000-06:00Your "chemical reaction" reference reminds me of a...Your "chemical reaction" reference reminds me of an anecdote told by an LDS psychiatrist: he asked a pornography addict, "How much money do you have in the bank?" The reply was $10,000. "Okay", he said, "write me a check for $10,000" and I won't cash it unless you regress into your addiction for one year. After several months, the guy came back and said, "I guess you'll have to cash the check." That was the last time the psychiatrist used a money penalty to try to help someone overcome a pornography addiction.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-24467617075339361602008-04-22T13:40:00.000-06:002008-04-22T13:40:00.000-06:00Rough Stone Rolling is an excellent book, although...Rough Stone Rolling is an excellent book, although it's not exactly an easy read, and I think a lot of Church members would really struggle with some of the stuff in there. I believe it's factually accurate (or as accurate as history can be) but it does paint a very different picture of Joseph Smith than you learn in Sunday School or from Church movies.<BR/><BR/>As for pornography, I think the problem with it and LDS people is that it does cause a chemical reaction in the brain which is addictive in and of itself. Add to that the additional 'high' gained by doing something wrong and having to hide it from your loved ones, and I think you end up with a highly addictive mix. In communities where it's not that big of a deal, I don't think the high is as bad (Or good if you want to look at it that way!)Urban Kodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327437055164051853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-49058259427103188762008-04-22T11:59:00.000-06:002008-04-22T11:59:00.000-06:00Derek,I agree that unfettered free markets do caus...Derek,<BR/><BR/>I agree that unfettered free markets do cause pollution and the other things you mention.<BR/><BR/>UK,<BR/><BR/>Good point. Gordon B. Hinckley used to remind LDS priesthood holders that pornography does cheapen one's perspective of sexuality. I've placed a hold on "Rough Stone Rolling" at the BYU library--all 5 copies are out right now.<BR/><BR/>Obi Wan,<BR/><BR/>It would be hard to determine whether Todd Compton portrays an accurate history of Joseph Smith. If it describes Smith as abusive, I wouldn't believe it, because it does not comport with anything else we know about the man.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-52570104702145330912008-04-22T11:18:00.000-06:002008-04-22T11:18:00.000-06:00BTW, Obi Wan, I do agree that sex is itself a natu...BTW, Obi Wan, I do agree that sex is itself a natural aspect of humanity, and that the conservative tendency to consider it or describe it as dirty hinders healthy discussion and exploration of sexual issues. That does not, in my opinion, change the fact that sex can be explored in very un-healthy ways, of which porn and the general hyper-sexualization of our culture are examples.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-2044106143287099352008-04-22T10:27:00.000-06:002008-04-22T10:27:00.000-06:00If I may weigh in as well - albeit a little late i...If I may weigh in as well - albeit a little late in the discussion...<BR/><BR/>I agree with the comments about freedom. I think as long AFA don't impose upon the freedom of any of the hotels, they are perfectly within their rights to make the request. And Marriot are perfectly within their rights to agree or disagree. If they were forcing people to watch adult movies it would be one thing, but ultimately people have the choice. I've heard somewhere that character is shown by what you do when no-one is looking. <BR/><BR/>On porn, I personally try to avoid it, but that's my personal choice. It does some damage to a person's perception of sexual relationships, but ultimately I don't think it causes any behavior that wasn't there already. If you're going to molest kids, porn could feed that desire, but I don't think it causes it.<BR/><BR/>On Joseph Smith, I've been doing a lot of reading on this and other topics lately, primarily from an LDS book called "Rough Stone Rolling". Ultimately the version of the history of polygamy held by the LDS Church is very different from how it appears to have happened. I am more convinced than ever that Polygamy was never a commandment, but rather a man made doctrine to cover up some very serious moral short comings.Urban Kodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327437055164051853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-89412333478660445792008-04-22T10:02:00.000-06:002008-04-22T10:02:00.000-06:00Frank:The info I got regarding Joseph Smith, polyg...Frank:<BR/><BR/>The info I got regarding Joseph Smith, polygamy and teenagers comes from "In Sacred Loneliness" by Todd Compton and from http://familysearch.com. Fourteen year old Helen Mar Kimball Smith Whitney comes to mind as just one of his spiritual conquests.Obi wan liberalihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04425739293622553830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-2017096533263649372008-04-22T09:40:00.000-06:002008-04-22T09:40:00.000-06:00Reach Upward, I've rarely watch broadcast TV for t...Reach Upward, I've rarely watch broadcast TV for the past several years, so I can't comment specifically on the content of KSL's programming. But I do very much question many of the ethical/moral decisions of the Church's commercial corporate entities. I believe we would be naive to think that every decision made under Church leadership is inspired and infallible.<BR/><BR/>You are right, much of the material disseminated through broadcast television may not be as overtly sexual as porn, but they still contribute to the over-sexualization of our society.<BR/><BR/>And yes, I do believe that those who peddle socially and personally harmful material are sinning. We are our brothers keepers, and we betray that role when we enable and profit off their weaknesses. We shouldn't gloss over that simply because market theories tell us it is rational and acceptable because we are meeting a demand.<BR/><BR/>So Frank, we have some agreement that the corporate structure, which is the primary vehicle of the market in our modern society, discourages accountability and conscious decision making. I believe this leads to all sorts of problems, regarding which you may or may not agree (pollution, fair treatment of labor, public safety, etc), in addition to pernicious hypersexualization and its attendent ills (misogyny, violence, etc). Do we only use our individual liberty to insert our own accountability into the process and encourage others to do the same? Or is it the responsibility of the state to insert into the corporate structure greater opportunities for conscious decision making and accountability in the interests of all people? After all, the ability to incorporate is not a natural right, but a contract with the state.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-47751804398935222062008-04-22T08:49:00.000-06:002008-04-22T08:49:00.000-06:00Good point. I think we should impeach the prophet...Good point. I think we should impeach the prophet! <BR/><BR/>Just kidding.<BR/><BR/>I've often wondered why the church doesn't go with a television lineup at KSL that is not so smutty. (For that matter I've wondered the same thing about Larry Miller and KJZZ.) But I hadn't thought about it in this comparative context. It's a very illustrative comparison, and I don't know the answer to it.<BR/><BR/>I don't, however, think anybody suggested that Marriott was "sinning" by allowing its subsidiaries to offer pornography. That appellation should be left to the consumer.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-9728261824468875182008-04-22T08:15:00.000-06:002008-04-22T08:15:00.000-06:00OK, for you market moral purists, what do you thin...OK, for you market moral purists, what do you think about LDS Church ownership of KSL TV, which features some of the raunchiest network programming in the U.S.? GAs preach constantly about avoiding the kind of junk that is broadcast in prime time every evening on KSL TV. If Marriott is sinning by allowing hotels in the chain to offer porn, then logically it seems you must also conclude that Pres. Monson is in a similar boat with respect to KSL TV.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-89665069733718976572008-04-22T07:41:00.000-06:002008-04-22T07:41:00.000-06:00Frank: I'd wondered the same thing about Obi Wan's...Frank: I'd wondered the same thing about Obi Wan's comments. Of Joseph Smith's wives, the youngest was 16 and only 3 were under 18 at the time of marriage. That sounds odd by modern standards, but in the standards of the 1830s and 1840s, that was perfectly acceptable. I seem to recall a number of his wives were in their mid-30s at the time of marriage; many of them married as a means of support, similar to Brigham Young.Jesse Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468928702710912142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-28507364713121389002008-04-22T07:26:00.000-06:002008-04-22T07:26:00.000-06:00Derek,Of all the insightful comments to this post,...Derek,<BR/><BR/>Of all the insightful comments to this post, I think yours is the most insightful. The "faceless impersonality" gives everyone a false alibi when the whole thing comes crashing down. <BR/><BR/>To answer Ron & Jessica and others--yes Marriott is largely a management company, but based on empirical evidence that pornography makes at least some people sexist, racist, and violent, I think that Marriott should do what it can to influence good morals in the companies that it manages.<BR/><BR/>Obi Wan,<BR/><BR/>You are correct that we have a bit of a Puritan streak in Mormonism, which makes our discussion of sex a bit forced and uncomfortable. This is unhealthy, but I hope we're overcoming it.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Joseph Smith messed around with young girls. Maybe you've been watching too many slanted CNN reports lately about the FLDS community?Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-38963563617834726942008-04-21T23:07:00.000-06:002008-04-21T23:07:00.000-06:00My point of view is this. Not everyone accepts th...My point of view is this. Not everyone accepts the idea that observing others engaqing in sexual activity is wrong. Should Marriot as a business man exclude services from his customers on the basis of his own moral beliefs?<BR/><BR/>My grandparents (my grandfather was a high councilman) ran a grocery store that also allowed people to buy beer. Many people who are not LDS don't have a problem with people consuming beer unless under the influence of beer they act in a way that is innapropriate. <BR/><BR/>I don't fault Marriot from what they are doing. Is porn ok? It's certainly better than anything Joseph Smith did with young girls, using his own religious authority to gain sexual favors from sincere teenage believers. <BR/><BR/>Humans are sexual animals. We are not as sexual as our close cousins the bonobo chimpanzees who use sex as a sort of social currency. But sex is important to our species. My fellow atheist Richard Dawkins acknowledges that humans are nominally polyginous. Sex has a role in human culture and social structure that victorian culture seems to suppress. I'm still trying to understand sex and what it means within our species. <BR/><BR/>Admittedly, I don't accept the admonitions of Mormon religious authorities who were strongly influenced by the puritan beliefs they evolved from. The Mormon experience is one of religiously coercing young women to submit to older men because of their religious status. There is nothing coercive about observing pornography. I personally don't have a problem with guys getting their jollies in a Marriott hotel watching pornography. That make me a minority, but hey, I'm used to fulfilling that role.Obi wan liberalihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04425739293622553830noreply@blogger.com