tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post1832691230388857711..comments2024-01-01T15:35:12.954-07:00Comments on Simple Utah Mormon Politics: Iran is as Democratic as the United States. You Shouldn't Be Surprised.Frank Stahelihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-62456858932878716952008-12-06T10:02:00.000-07:002008-12-06T10:02:00.000-07:00When I read When Corporations Rule the World by Da...When I read <EM>When Corporations Rule the World</EM> by David Korten (a brilliant book, one in which I think you would find much with which you would agree) several years back, I was absolutely shocked that corporations qualify as persons! That is truly one of the biggest travesties in our law.<BR/><BR/>(Yes, <EM>The Corporation</EM> was a very good documentary).<BR/><BR/>I wasn't aware of the Fair Elections org to which you linked. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll have to give it a look--it sounds like a good one to support.<BR/><BR/>And I certainly agree that the U.S. populace is very poor at being politically informed, active, and involved. It boggles my mind how little thought (or how superficial the thought) so many give to their political positions or decisions.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-88442401043560833622008-12-06T09:48:00.000-07:002008-12-06T09:48:00.000-07:00Absolutely. Particularly, Bill Moyers has me conv...Absolutely. Particularly, Bill Moyers has me convinced from his book "Moyers on Democracy" that we should have <A HREF="http://www.fairelections.us/" REL="nofollow">Fair Elections</A>, where wealth wouldn't always determine who our politicians are.<BR/><BR/>Another persuasive instrument for me was the documentary video "The Corporation" that talked about how beneficial it would be to rescind the corporation's ability to be legally considered a "person".Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-84315609031334420742008-12-06T09:23:00.000-07:002008-12-06T09:23:00.000-07:00I very much appreciate that you are among the rela...I very much appreciate that you are among the relatively few conservatives/libertarians who recognize the danger of concentration of wealth. And I agree that government in at least some ways (we might differ in how many) plays a role in that divide. But I presume, given your comments, that people can and will accumulate wealth in a "free market." Do you think it is possible that great wealth inevitably leads to inordinant influence in governance--including influence in protecting their position? Do you think it might therefore be wise to incorporate some restraints to the influence of wealth?derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-55183613639135665552008-12-06T08:28:00.000-07:002008-12-06T08:28:00.000-07:00Thanks for the clarification. That's something th...Thanks for the clarification. That's something that I can agree with. If a small percentage of society accumulates a large percentage of its wealth, it is a sign of society's ill health. Contrary to what some conservatives claim, I think this is becoming a serious problem in the United States. <BR/><BR/>I do think, however, that the rich/poor divide is occurring with the assistance of government. The only way to stop the upper crust from gaining control is for Americans to remain moral, thoughtful, and politically active. We're not, as a rule, doing a very good job.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-25141892493102843262008-12-05T21:44:00.000-07:002008-12-05T21:44:00.000-07:00I apologize for the way I phrased the comment. It ...I apologize for the way I phrased the comment. It was not very accurate.<BR/><BR/>My error aside:<BR/><BR/>Rand did not portray the "Atlases" of the world like the Rockefellers in <EM>Atlas Shrugged</EM>. Of course, that work is fiction. Fiction authors can chose to portray their characters in all sorts of fanciful ways. They don't need to correspond in any way to reality.<BR/><BR/>I find it interesting that in many of her works, such as her essays in <EM>Capitalism: the unknown Ideal</EM>, she very much does suggest that the real-life captains of industry and finance were persecuted, put-upon martyrs whom the hoi-polloi were holding back from being elevated to the greatness to which they deserve.<BR/><BR/>I believe that one would be naive to think that, without any restrictions or restraints, that a small percentage of society would not accumulate a particularly high level of wealth and power, then using that wealth and power to their own ends to maintain their power and interests.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-59775678631904406712008-12-05T12:57:00.000-07:002008-12-05T12:57:00.000-07:00No, the Randian ideal does not advocate the superm...No, the Randian ideal does not advocate the supermen to rise to positions of influence over government. It simply advocates unfettering them to be able to provide necessary benefits to society according to the profit motive. I'm not sure how you could have read "Atlas Shrugged" (have you?) and come to that conclusion.<BR/><BR/>Rand would never advocate the means by which Rockefeller rose to power, nor the power that he has.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-83424787175104490432008-12-04T10:44:00.000-07:002008-12-04T10:44:00.000-07:00I agree that it is amazing how apathetic the U.S. ...I agree that it is amazing how apathetic the U.S. public is to our democratic process. And it isn't just about voting; how often does the average citizen closely scrutinize the actions of his Senators, Representatives, Governors, Councilmen, etc. How many bother to attend city council meetings?<BR/><BR/>But regarding your last point, isn't that the Randian ideal? Minimal government restraint frees the Atlases of the world--the supermen, the brilliant Carnegies, Fords, Morgans, and Rockefellers--to rise to positions of influence commensurate with their gifts and use those gifts for the benefit of the rest of society, taking care of those things we must not have the aptitude to take care of ourselves (else why would we not be in their position)?derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.com