tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post2336779748874661318..comments2024-01-01T15:35:12.954-07:00Comments on Simple Utah Mormon Politics: More Trappings for the Utah Legislative AristocracyFrank Stahelihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-89529257129831589992009-01-27T16:54:00.000-07:002009-01-27T16:54:00.000-07:00No one has answered Ryan's question: where do we g...No one has answered Ryan's question: where do we go to see these campaign contributions? If they all have to be disclosed, how do we as citizens get a hold of them, to begin connecting the dots between politicians' votes and their cash cows?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-90709477477540863072008-01-25T11:06:00.000-07:002008-01-25T11:06:00.000-07:00Yes! All the emperors are naked, and all they see...Yes! All the emperors are naked, and all they see is each other, so they don't think anything's wrong.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I hope I have not been herein interpreted as throwing all Utah legislators into the same "aristocracy" bucket. Particularly, those who don't flaunt the bribery issue, and even as well, those, like Pat Jones, who realize they made mistakes and are correcting them, are not in that bucket. <BR/><BR/>Pat Jones and others like her are true servants of the people.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-54086814732971786262008-01-24T18:21:00.000-07:002008-01-24T18:21:00.000-07:00GREAT RANT Frank! I was laughing the whole time. ...GREAT RANT Frank! I was laughing the whole time. It is another one of those "The Emporer is naked." moments.<BR/><BR/>Jesse has the right idea. There will never be any change until we make it harder for them to take the money than it is for them to ignore us they will continue to take the gifts.<BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work.<BR/><BR/>LLThe Lady Logicianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13441251478384866408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-23653862513999513322008-01-23T17:35:00.000-07:002008-01-23T17:35:00.000-07:00That sounds like about the right amount. Five or ...That sounds like about the right amount. Five or ten bucks allows them to get the little trinket from the Utah housing expo or the free copy of the Salt Lake Tribune sent to them, for example.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-83405948809881506132008-01-23T11:48:00.000-07:002008-01-23T11:48:00.000-07:00Assembly persons in California can receive up to t...Assembly persons in California can receive up to ten bucks from lobbyists Frank. What do they know that we cannot do here?Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07112174152213184594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-15201700157407881792008-01-23T10:20:00.000-07:002008-01-23T10:20:00.000-07:00Chad,I'm actually surprised you would care about t...Chad,<BR/><BR/>I'm actually surprised you would care about that nuance. There are Democrats on the hill who are very frustrated with their fellow Democrats about this issue, and yes there are more Republicans, but from my perspective, one person from either party taking the kinds of gifts they are receiving is too much.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, <BR/><BR/>You don't know me very well, and I don't know you either, because you wouldn't identify yourself. Don did a very good job of characterizing my interests and motivations for you.<BR/><BR/>Scott,<BR/><BR/>It's not the first time I've heard about it, and I'm sure it's not for anyone else, but the beginning of the legislative session is a good time to bring it up. I agree with you that voters should apply the needed pressure. Republicans or Democrats who can't see that this wrong is wrong should be replaced.<BR/><BR/>I like Jesse's idea, or something close to it.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-83386478772341997302008-01-23T09:08:00.000-07:002008-01-23T09:08:00.000-07:00Something almost as effective as the force of law ...Something almost as effective as the force of law is public shaming. Write up a pledge for candidates to sign detailing that they'll eschew lobbyist money, refuse gifts and not treat campaign funds as a personal piggybank. Post the results of who signs and who doesn't somewhere conspicuous. Anyone who doesn't sign will look suspiciously shady.<BR/><BR/>Of course, that's getting really close to dirty politics...Jesse Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11468928702710912142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-30804665245839182452008-01-22T19:40:00.000-07:002008-01-22T19:40:00.000-07:00You act as if this is the first time anyone has ev...You act as if this is the first time anyone has ever heard of this. The fact is that it's been going on since before I was born. And guess what? It's the same for federal legislators, only at a much higher price.<BR/><BR/>I'd love to see gifts outlawed. Period. I'd love to see a requirement that unused campaign funds must go to the treasury. (I'd almost say that they could go to a charity, but it's easy to see how that could be abused.)<BR/><BR/>I'd love to see the laws change, and I'd be glad to help apply pressure. But I'm not holding my breath. Until politicians feel that their positions are threatened (i.e. voters will oust them) unless they make such changes, they will not be incentivized to do so. Politicians may pay homage to such reforms, but we will never see the reforms unless voters get ticked off enough to get serious about it.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-53737476770474843142008-01-22T18:44:00.000-07:002008-01-22T18:44:00.000-07:00Mr. or Ms. Anonymous,It's not about brown-nosing D...Mr. or Ms. Anonymous,<BR/>It's not about brown-nosing Democrats. It's about integrity, openness and honesty in doing the public's business. I'd much rather have a conservative with Frank's integrity in office than most of the jokers who are up there now. At least with Frank I know his opinions (misguided as they are sometimes ;) ) are coming straight from him and not some lobbyist lackey who's bought himself an agenda.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-68804782327624731402008-01-22T18:30:00.000-07:002008-01-22T18:30:00.000-07:00Is there somewhere where you can see the campaign ...Is there somewhere where you can see the campaign contributions and what they spent it on for the state legislature. I know you can see what Groups gave to the U.S. senators and Congressmen at Opensecrets.org.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-90120245283507006622008-01-22T17:23:00.000-07:002008-01-22T17:23:00.000-07:00The realization that the elections are rigged grea...The realization that the elections are rigged greatly reduces the incentive for an incumbent to behave ethically.<BR/><BR/>(Want to make elections more representative and competitive? Start at <A HREF="http://www.fairvote.org" REL="nofollow">FairVote.org</A>)Rob Lathamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16503329733950062971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-79487373643122238292008-01-22T15:43:00.000-07:002008-01-22T15:43:00.000-07:00With Don's endorsement, it looks like your strateg...With Don's endorsement, it looks like your strategy of "I'm a Republican but I don't suck like other Republicans and I'm willing to talk smack about Republicans" is finally paying off. <BR/><BR/>Brown-nosing the Democrats won't get you much in the long-run, but keep on trash-talking the GOP and telling everyone how good Ralph Becker is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-20499414712318703002008-01-22T13:03:00.000-07:002008-01-22T13:03:00.000-07:00Shhhhh! Darn it Frank, the scam was supposed to be...Shhhhh! Darn it Frank, the scam was supposed to be a secret. <BR/><BR/>Please send donations to:<BR/><BR/>The Committee to Elect Obi wan<BR/>P.O. Box 8304<BR/>Tooele, UT 84074Obi wan liberalihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04425739293622553830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-92065035201716357492008-01-22T12:55:00.000-07:002008-01-22T12:55:00.000-07:00Frank, you went on with another well-written blog ...Frank, you went on with another well-written blog and then you end it with, "It appears, by the way, the a lot more of these gift-getters have an 'R' by their names than those who have a 'D'." You mention this point as if you just could not finish the blog without a personal slam to the republican party. Simple mathematics demonstrates there are far more republicans in the legislature than democrats (76 to 28) and therefore if every legislator received a single $50 gift there would obviously be far more republicans receiving gifts than democrats. Cut the republican gifts in half and there are still almost twice as many as the democrats. Wouldn't it be better to suggest the elimination of gifts altogether rather than make party implications?Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17196185553199416797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-58171059237504705072008-01-22T11:11:00.000-07:002008-01-22T11:11:00.000-07:00Frank,I don't care how many issues you and I disag...Frank,<BR/>I don't care how many issues you and I disagree on, we <I>need</I> people like you up on the Hill!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com