tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post2628804761282323933..comments2024-01-01T15:35:12.954-07:00Comments on Simple Utah Mormon Politics: Was the Nation of Israel Created by an Act of God?Frank Stahelihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-33067965452272192732009-05-05T08:11:00.000-06:002009-05-05T08:11:00.000-06:00Derek,
It's ironic that simply because the Book o...Derek,<br /><br />It's ironic that simply because the Book of Mormon prophesies that these scourgings of the Lamanites will happen that somehow it was morally okay that they did.<br /><br />Cliff,<br /><br />If I die and get to heaven and the only ones there are you and Yuri Gagarin, then I will admit there is no god. When you get there and see God, will you then admit that he exists?<br /><br />;-)<br /><br />Jeffrey,<br /><br />Stay tuned. I'm just getting ready to post my latest article, which discusses America's inane policy with regard to Pakistan. Search for Pakistan in this weblog to see what I have written about it before. However, in answer to your question, it was our friends the benevolent Brits who brought the India/Pakistan fire to a conflagration 50 or 60 years ago. We Americans (at least our government) seem happy as clams to take over their dark legacy of Middle Eastern destruction.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-29596423161762493232009-05-05T07:58:00.000-06:002009-05-05T07:58:00.000-06:00The insane amount of violence perpetrated by both ...The insane amount of violence perpetrated by both sides of the Pakistan/India split are not discussed in regards to US policy because, AFAIK, the US did not and does not claim a stake in the conflict. They did not and do not actively support one against the other, claiming to do so on moral grounds. Therefore that tragedy, while catestrophic, has no bearing on US policy debates. The US <EM>has</EM> intimately involved itself in the conflict surrounding Israel, and so its history should absolutely be a consideration in US policy in the region.<br /><br /><EM>Israel is Jewish Land</EM>...<br /><br />By what right? Because they were the majority in the region a couple thousand years ago? Any US citizen making that argument , if that is your argument, had better be prepared to sign over the deed to their property to the nearest Native American tribe. The Native Americans have a claim which is much more recent.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-32943329961621896222009-05-05T07:42:00.000-06:002009-05-05T07:42:00.000-06:00Most countries were created with far more violence...Most countries were created with far more violence than Israel, but I don't see anyone shouting that these countries have no right to exist! Tkae Pakistan for example. Pakistans was created around the sane time as Israel. Millions of people were killed by both sides (Muslims, Hindus) as the populations moved across the new borders.<br /><br />Ask yourself why no one mentions this catastrophe; is that the Muslims got the territory they wanted, so they are happy. ISrael is Jewish land and the Muslims can tolerate this incursion, so they have crated a Muslim version of history.<br /><br />Cliff...<br />If you spent any time studying Judaism, you would know that there is much more in our religion than G-d. Of the "Western three" JUdaism is far more this world oriented than either Christiannity or Islam.<br /><br />We also have massive texts about dealing with other people, handling disoutes, respect for animals, and respect and handling of the land. Maybe you don't care about any of these things either?<br /><br />This is one of the reasons why I revere Judaism!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-43783099217571455152009-05-04T16:28:00.000-06:002009-05-04T16:28:00.000-06:00Of course Israel was not created by an Act of God ...Of course Israel was not created by an Act of God anymore than the universe.<br /><br />The kind of Gods that 'DO' things, does not exist. Religion is a popular human construct.<br /><br />I'm writing this from my home deep in the land of Utah and it is being broadcast around the world instantly.<br /><br />...without God's help.<br /><br />Time to get over God and on with progress and healthy spirituality.Cliffs Blogger Profilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870786312032628979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-57925443893554492092009-05-04T15:42:00.000-06:002009-05-04T15:42:00.000-06:00While yes, most nations are to some extent "concei...While yes, most nations are to some extent "conceived in war," it is interesting to consider the contexts. The US was conceived in a war to free themselves in the land they already inhabited from outside authority. Israel was conceived in a war to take land from others and establish a new government completely ignoring the interests and consent of the contemporary inhabitants. Rather starkly different situations, are they not?<br /><br />Comparisons to the wide-scale theft/conquest of lands from the Native Americans, the Spanish (Florida) and from Mexico would be much more apt, and were likewise immoral.<br /><br />(Ironically, I've conversed with some Mormons who justified the seizure of Native American lands on the BofM prophecies that the descendants of the Lamanites would be scattered in the wake of the "people of the book").derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-1739496738638807322009-05-04T09:08:00.000-06:002009-05-04T09:08:00.000-06:00Israel was not surrounded by hostile forces hell-b...Israel was not surrounded by hostile forces hell-bent on their destruction until it became clear they wanted to carve out a large piece of Palestine--including Jerusalem--for their exclusive enjoyment.<br /><br />You're partly right about Orson Hyde. He did dedicate that land for the gathering of the Jews, but he didn't dedicate it for their exclusive enjoyment. They can--and had been doing so for decades before 1948--gather to that land without creating a nation.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-64794051770727372532009-05-01T17:45:00.000-06:002009-05-01T17:45:00.000-06:00Frank
The United State was conceived in war, so w...Frank<br /><br />The United State was conceived in war, so was just about every nation ever created. Israel is surrounded by hostile forces Hell-bent on their destruction so of course they have to use some extreme measures to defend themselves.<br /><br />Israel was created in fulfillment of prophesy. Remember <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Hyde" REL="nofollow">Orson Hide</A> dedicated the land for the gathering of the Jews. Israel is meant to be and it's existence will bring about the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542479839482425049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-24340293215080955982009-05-01T10:36:00.000-06:002009-05-01T10:36:00.000-06:00Bravo. I couldn't agree more with the root of this...Bravo. I couldn't agree more with the root of this post.<br /><br />The idea that we should support the State of Israel because the gathering of Israel was prophecied, a notion many of our fellows seem to hold, seems rather odd to me. After all, it was also prophecied that the Jews would be endure enormous persecution because of their rejection of the Savior, and yet few Mormons would suggest that means we should <EM>aid</EM> that persecution. Should we have supported Hitler because he was fulfilling prophecy? The notion is outrageous. So why then should we help fulfill this prophecy--assuming for the sake of argument the dubious prospect that the modern State of Israel is part of that prophecy--if it likewise is the source of so much conflict and suffering?<br /><br />Too many politicians of both parties are too eager to pander Israel. Obama seems a few degrees better than Bush, but it is hardly enough. We need to wash our hands of the entire affair.derekstaffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06834500613514245522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-35972099197578156882009-05-01T08:30:00.000-06:002009-05-01T08:30:00.000-06:00Good luck with this post, Frank. Dare to suggest ...Good luck with this post, Frank. Dare to suggest the Israeli government (a secular institution) has done anything wrong and someone is bound to accuse you of being anti-Jewish.<br /><br />Israeli policy is boneheaded, and the U.S. really needs to stop offering unconditional support to the Israeli government. Of course, our politicians don't have the courage to go there.rmwarnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10948594032787232166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-42714380667429697442009-05-01T08:21:00.000-06:002009-05-01T08:21:00.000-06:00I will address only ther last portion of your blog...I will address only ther last portion of your blog.<br /><br />If the US stopped providing funds to Isarael and the Arab nations, then Israel is the primary loser. Israel has no ol. The Arai countries controll vilolions of petro dollars.<br /><br />That enables the Arabs to purchase just about any weapons system.<br /><br />I guess in your mind this situation is part of your wet dream!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com