tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post3346088027780838128..comments2024-01-01T15:35:12.954-07:00Comments on Simple Utah Mormon Politics: Environmental(ist) Catastrophe in Southern California?Frank Stahelihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-37853600699360273082007-11-02T08:19:00.000-06:002007-11-02T08:19:00.000-06:00People have been building in WUI for about four ce...People have been building in WUI for about four centuries now. We whine about inadequate space for our expanding population, but what we mean is that we don't want our expanding population to expand into areas that some think ought to remain wilderness. But when we allow residential expansion, we are duty bound to provide adequate protection for those properties. These people pay plenty of property taxes.<BR/><BR/>The odd thing is that many areas of recent residential development used to be agricultural. And it didn't go up in smoke every four years. Building residential communities on the property certainly changes its use, but does that change completely explain the wildfires?<BR/><BR/>Clearly, there are multiple causes to the wildfire problem. Instead of attacking this issue as if it has a single cause, a more comprehensive approach is warranted.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-4042216488258897502007-11-01T16:01:00.000-06:002007-11-01T16:01:00.000-06:00Not only is it the enviros fault it's also the Cli...Not only is it the enviros fault it's also the Clinton's fault! <BR/><BR/>Honestly, Cal Fire is out their all year trying to get home owners to clear away brush. They get more resistance from homeowners then anyone. There are no environmental policies that don't allow homeowners to clear vegetation away from their homes. <BR/> <BR/>The same thing happens in Utah. Utah Forestry, Fire & State Lands tries to inform homeowners about defensible space and they don't listen. If it helps you sleep at night to blame it on the enviros then have at it. FIREWISE COMMINTIES. <BR/><BR/>Leaving a wildlife corridor is not part of the problem. The problem is that 35% of all homes in the US are built in the WUI. You build there you should expect a chance of a forest fire with the possibility of your house burning down. Especially when you build in an environment that uses fire to sustain itself.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01547861717104907210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-28719382028867292262007-11-01T13:30:00.000-06:002007-11-01T13:30:00.000-06:00Richard,But I think that requiring private owners ...Richard,<BR/><BR/>But I think that requiring private owners to bow to wildlife corridors is (at least part of) the very problem we are talking about.<BR/><BR/>I did find interesting as well a couple of other points in the story--low amounts of money dedicated to fire fighting, not enough requirements for non-flammable building materials, inadvisability of putting homes on ridgelines, etc.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-78911183631001073412007-11-01T13:21:00.000-06:002007-11-01T13:21:00.000-06:00Read this article from San Diego that explains the...Read <A HREF="http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/10/28/news/sandiego/18_19_1010_27_07.txt" REL="nofollow">this article</A> from San Diego that explains the issue. Developers are building houses in fire-prone areas, using flammable materials. Because these new developments are pushing the limit of the wildland-urban interface, they are required to leave wildlife corridors-- but that's not the problem.rmwarnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10948594032787232166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-85783882589913552952007-11-01T13:18:00.000-06:002007-11-01T13:18:00.000-06:00Current law states that 100 feet must be cleared a...Current law states that <A HREF="http://www.fire.ca.gov/education_100foot.php#" REL="nofollow">100 feet must be cleared</A> around your home.<BR/><BR/>However, as <A HREF="http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040426/news_mz1ed26top.html" REL="nofollow">this editorial</A> notes, environmental agencies frequently lobby and impose rules and regulations upon homeowners regarding what they can and can't do around their home. All in the name of "the environment".<BR/><BR/>The Blue Ribbon Fire Commission was created to find a solution to the problem created by frequent lawsuits and lobbying by environmental groups to halt such fire prevention activities. See <A HREF="http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004/articles4/following_ca_blue_ribbon_fire_co.htm" REL="nofollow">this press release</A>.<BR/><BR/>Residential property hasn't been as large a target of environmentalists, often because the areas are already zoned and cut up for homeowners before their purchase - instead, companies purchasing and developing large plots of land are the focus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-59461403687718209092007-11-01T12:45:00.000-06:002007-11-01T12:45:00.000-06:00I would like to see a link or some other proof tha...I would like to see a link or some other proof that anyone is being told not to clear brush on private property. Sounds like an urban myth.rmwarnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10948594032787232166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-67456660937114325952007-11-01T12:00:00.000-06:002007-11-01T12:00:00.000-06:00Connor,Thanks. This is extremely helpful informat...Connor,<BR/><BR/>Thanks. This is extremely helpful information.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-58710247889188407082007-11-01T11:55:00.000-06:002007-11-01T11:55:00.000-06:00Ironically, some of the freedoms that have already...<EM>Ironically, some of the freedoms that have already been taken away from Southern California residents--in the name of protecting the environment--have likely caused an increase in the destruction over what otherwise would have occurred</EM><BR/><BR/>My mother (Deputy Mayor in Poway, one of the hardest hit areas) met with the Governator the other day, as well as other SD reps, and FEMA. In the meeting they discussed, among other things, why certain properties were hit so hard.<BR/><BR/>The governor noted that as they flew over, they noticed that the properties that had larger spaces cleared survived, whereas those that didn't, burned down.<BR/><BR/>So my mother went on the offensive and blamed environmentalists who refuse to allow people to clear brush around their property to prevent such atrocities from occuring.<BR/><BR/>The governor listened, took notes, and <A HREF="http://nctimes.com/articles/2007/10/31/news/top_stories/1_01_2310_30_07.txt" REL="nofollow">in a press conference</A> w/ the Gov. this week (see bottom of article, "Balance tipped toward environment"), she argued the same thing.<BR/><BR/>Really, it's ridiculous. Enviros in SoCal are so adamant that certain indigenous plants be protected, at the expense (now in two major fires in four years) of people's homes and lives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-49712318434947202562007-11-01T11:16:00.000-06:002007-11-01T11:16:00.000-06:00Salt,Exactly. Harry Reid is not a scientist, yet ...Salt,<BR/><BR/>Exactly. Harry Reid is not a scientist, yet he has a dramatic effect on politics and the environment in America by, as an official, making absurd statements.<BR/><BR/>(I may make absurd statements, as well, but I have very little influence)<BR/><BR/>;-)<BR/><BR/>Richard,<BR/><BR/>In an effort to clear up an issue, I believe in being a conservationist. I believe that man is a steward of the earth, and that we should treat it with great care. I agree with you that conservation groups are in favor of fire prevention in populated areas. The reality, though, is that there are those fringe relative few who go beyond conservation to the effect that policies do not treat these populated areas in their best interests when it comes to fire prevention. <BR/><BR/>And more homes burn down than should have even in the event of arson. That's wrong.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-13591798120517324922007-11-01T11:01:00.000-06:002007-11-01T11:01:00.000-06:00Frank, somebody might conclude you don't like cons...Frank, somebody might conclude you don't like conservationists or something. The fact is, conservation groups are all in favor of fire prevention in populated areas. What they are opposed to is the program of logging mature trees in remote wild forests that the Bush administration promotes in the name of "healthy forests." The federal government routinely subsidizes the destruction of our national forests with our tax money.rmwarnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10948594032787232166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-57025079914255355352007-11-01T10:53:00.000-06:002007-11-01T10:53:00.000-06:00In the past So.Cal fires that have been started by...In the past So.Cal fires that have been started by arsonists (I can't recall a single fire that wasn't started by man)they've caught the prepetrators, which I find absolutely amazing.<BR/><BR/>I also find it appaling that politians leap on this tragedy in order to further their personal political agenda. <BR/><BR/>Especially someone like Harry Reid who is NOT a scientist, he's a politian.Salt H2Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530132008817346271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-21728695935435062007-11-01T09:17:00.000-06:002007-11-01T09:17:00.000-06:00I did hear that in at least one case a young child...I did hear that in at least one case a young child came forward and said he was playing with matches. But there were several points at which various fires started. Some adults have been arrested for arson, and one was killed in a standoff with police.<BR/><BR/>We do need to have better public lands management in this regard in the US, and we need to let private landowners take care of their lands as they see fit.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-89286322713693406272007-11-01T09:11:00.000-06:002007-11-01T09:11:00.000-06:00If it turns out the arsonist behind this were envi...If it turns out the arsonist behind this were environmental terrorists, I'm not sure if we'll ever know... I'd expect a story about some misguided kid looking for attention or playing with matches or something. Any story that catagorized the arsonist as environmental terrorists (if indeed they turn out to be) will likely be labels as a smeer campaign to promote a right wing agenda.<BR/><BR/>National Parks in South Africa burn the entire park in phases over a 4 year period to keep natural processes in place - endangered wildlife in them is thriving inspite of this management, so much so that many have to cull elephants and other animals to prevent over population.Urban Kodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327437055164051853noreply@blogger.com