tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post753291719008947489..comments2024-01-01T15:35:12.954-07:00Comments on Simple Utah Mormon Politics: Presidential Campaign 2008: A Pox on the Republican KingmakersFrank Stahelihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-47651010329207155162008-02-27T16:47:00.000-07:002008-02-27T16:47:00.000-07:00I hadn't thought about it that way (prophet vs. pr...I hadn't thought about it that way (prophet vs. president), but you know what? You're absolutely right.<BR/><BR/>Bob Dole was a terrible candidate to face Bill Clinton. It was almost as if the republicans were inviting Clinton to win.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-61025586695663175252008-02-25T11:54:00.000-07:002008-02-25T11:54:00.000-07:00FrankThank you for adding me. You have been a fixt...Frank<BR/><BR/>Thank you for adding me. You have been a fixture in mine for a long time.<BR/><BR/>As far as the McCain being in the Republican establishment. Republicans have a bad habit of nominating the person who has been around the longest ie Bob Dole, or who is considered the next in line. It may work for choosing a prophet but it's a poor way of choosing a candidate.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542479839482425049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-59786157189213738672008-02-25T11:40:00.000-07:002008-02-25T11:40:00.000-07:00Reach,Thank you for your perspective. It is alway...Reach,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your perspective. It is always interesting to see what's happening long term rather than myopically as I tend to do.<BR/><BR/>I think, though, that McCain has always been the Establishment's candidate--not the Republican party machine, but the Establishment that has its fingers in both sides of the political menagerie.<BR/><BR/>I completely agree with your last statement that "The answer...is to trust politicians with less control over our lives."<BR/><BR/>UK,<BR/><BR/>I agree about Socialism down your throat; at least we know what we're getting. I'm starting to worry about Obama, though. With all the people swooning over him, it's interesting that they don't pay too much attention to his actual policies. <BR/><BR/>My vote for president (unless Ron Paul makes a miraculous stand against John and the Establishmentarians) will be outside the Republican or Democrat parties, very likely.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-22505486915466504712008-02-25T10:56:00.000-07:002008-02-25T10:56:00.000-07:00In the presidential poll, I vote...a) Socialism fo...In the presidential poll, I vote...<BR/><BR/>a) Socialism forced down your throat.<BR/><BR/>I actually wanted to get some T-Shirts made a year or two back that said "Republicans for Hillary, at least then we'll know we're going to get screwed up front".<BR/><BR/>I didn't do it for 2 reasons:<BR/><BR/>1 - Someone beat me to the RepublicansForHillary.com domain name.<BR/>2 - I no longer consider myself a republican.<BR/><BR/>Right now, if Paul doesn't get it, my vote goes to the candidate with the least establishment type connections. That would appear to be Obama right now.Urban Kodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327437055164051853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-36909746495789566632008-02-25T10:29:00.000-07:002008-02-25T10:29:00.000-07:00We have not been free from party establishments ho...We have not been free from party establishments holding major sway in American politics since Washington. Yes, Reagan bucked the GOP moderates that had been running the party for years, but his ascendancy was more a symptom of the fact that the moderate wing of the party had lost clout, largely due to Nixon. As the more conservative wing ascended, so did Reagan's chances. The GOP conservatives were always there, but power among the different groups that make up the GOP has always been traded back and forth, even from the days of the Whig Party. The situation in the Democratic Party is similar.<BR/><BR/>The fact is that this stuff has always been with us. We're not going to be free of party establishments controlling nominations anytime soon.<BR/><BR/>The funny thing about this post is that McCain actually bucked the party establishment. Romney had the support of a significant part of the conservative base. He also had more establishment support than did McCain. But in primaries where more voters actually had a say in matters, McCain repeatedly beat Romney, despite Romney significnatly outspending him. The establishment was thinking Romney, while a lot of voters were thinking McCain.<BR/><BR/>Like Huckabee, Romney won establishment-controlled caucuses. But in all but three instances where more actual voters have been allowed into the process (primary elections), McCain has prevailed.<BR/><BR/>Once it became clear that McCain was going to win the nomination, the establishment swung in tight behind him. Romney followed suit. This is a case of the establishment following the voters. In 1980, the old moderate bulls went head-do-head with Reagan -- and the voters. They lost, so they lost their power. Today, the establishment old bulls are trying to stay in power. They are simply trying to benefit from the way this thing is obviously breaking.<BR/><BR/>It's nice to have a lot of altruistic ideals with respect to politics, but doing that will always leave you disappointed. When you see politics for what it really is, and you recognize that politicians largely respond to the actual incentives in the system rather than to ideals, you are able to understand and work with what you have without terrible disappointment.<BR/><BR/>Expecting too much or the wrong things from politicians will always lead to dissatisfaction. Adjusting one's expectations of politicians to reality relieves a lot of stress. The answer, of course, is to trust politicians with less control over our lives.Scott Hinrichshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831447472339880148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-55288113099370079312008-02-25T08:52:00.000-07:002008-02-25T08:52:00.000-07:00I actually ran across your post last night when I ...I actually ran across your post last night when I was perusing the Utah Bloghive. Very interesting.<BR/><BR/>It sounds like McCain is planning to simply ignore the rules. Hmmm....<BR/><BR/>By the way, I finally remembered to add "Oblogatory Anecdotes" to my blogroll.Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-28836757987617082392008-02-25T08:47:00.000-07:002008-02-25T08:47:00.000-07:00I have a post about it on my blog and some links f...I have a post about it on my blog and some links for more information.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542479839482425049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-41476205538008698252008-02-24T18:47:00.000-07:002008-02-24T18:47:00.000-07:00I've haven't heard anything about this so far, but...I've haven't heard anything about this so far, but it would be good news if it were true!Frank Stahelihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01822334061980912687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25646979.post-69113866809504675072008-02-23T22:33:00.000-07:002008-02-23T22:33:00.000-07:00It looks like McCain may be hanged by his own camp...It looks like McCain may be hanged by his own campaign finance reform rope.<BR/>Can we say poetic justice?Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542479839482425049noreply@blogger.com