Often when people so completely mischaracterize an opponent's position, it turns to the opponent's benefit. I'm predicting that a silly video will get a lot of people wondering what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is all about, and they'll be pleasantly surprised to find that Mormon missionaries don't work for the KGB. Could the video producers be sued in court for hate crimes? Maybe, but they won't be.Is the video's content so inane that no one can take it serious? Unfortunately, a few people already claim to believe that the video tells the truth.
A friend of mine at work was very distressed about a new commercial that has begun playing recently against Mormons who are in support of California's Proposition 8, which would make it illegal for homosexuals to marry. I expected to encounter a tour-de-force, something much more truthful and effective, something that would cause me to question my stand against homosexual marriage. Instead, I watched a very lame video.
You'd be better off reading the LDS Church's Official Statement about its involvement in Prop 8. Cliff Lyon, of the weblog OneUtah, seems to have never met a Mormon bashing tool that he didn't like, regardless of its truthfulness. Cliff posted the above video on his website, advocating that it's a correct representation of what LDS Church leadership is directing from its ivory tower in Salt Lake City. I'm not sure why even Cliff would allege that the video is anything close to accurate.
Cliff says
Lets also be clear the preponderance of modern, good Mormons, though silent, are not proud of the LDS church’s intrusion into the lives people, families, and the rights of all Americans.I'm not sure how Cliff would know how the preponderance of "modern, good Mormons" think--if they are silent.
The Church is not intruding into people's lives and destroying their rights. Of course if you watch the video believing what Mr. Lyon promulgates as "gospel truth", you might think the Church is a bastion of Torquemada.
Cliff continues
The good news is almost no one born since 1980, Mormon kids included, has any problem with homosexuality and nothing the LDS church will do will change that.It's as though the LDS Church is supporting a Proposition that would make homosexuality itself illegal. I'm not sure how Cliff and others can come to the conclusion that that's what members of the LDS Church are advocating. It's interesting as well that he would single out the Mormon Church, when the issue has broad support among various churches. I suppose it's just easier that way--to not have to really delve deep into the issue, because one's mind is already made up.
Related Links:
An Ugly Attack on Mormons
That ad is likely responsible for Prop 8's 56-44 lead thus far. Something that over-the-top just makes you look bad.
ReplyDeleteWow, that WAS really lame.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who was against Proposition 8, I'd have to agree as well. Really lame, and insulting too - It totally misrepresents on the matter as well. That said though, some of the literature and ads I've seen from the Pro Prop 8 crowd have been close to this lame.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it seems with any issue debate, a few individuals on both sides always take things too far, and the rift between the sides grows ever wider.
Frank,
ReplyDeleteIf you would like to meet a few active Mormons DISGUSTED by the Church's support for Prop 8, let me know next time you are in town.
In the mean time, I would appreciate if you could wouldn't generalize about my Mormon bashing.
I am very careful about distinguishing between 'The Church' and individuals Mormons and I challenge you to show me where I confuse the two.
You should know better.
A good (and active) friend always reminds me, not to judge the Church by its members.
I will be careful not to associate your disingenuous generalizations with The Church.
Frank, if you have a problem with gay people, just say so.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe gay folks and their lifestyle is no better or worse than yours, then leave them alone.
And PLEASE spare us the apologetics.
Frank, If you have a problem with the fact that I did not criticize the Catholic church's support of Prop 8, I'll take it under consideration.
ReplyDeleteBut to dismiss my criticism of the LDS Church for that reason is quite beneath you.
Cliff,
ReplyDeleteI believe that some active Mormons are disgusted by the Church's support for Prop 8, but (1) these aren't the silent majority, and (2) they misunderstand the church's position if they are "disgusted". It's important that you and they read the Church's position on the issue rather than "put words in their mouth" that are clearly untrue. The church said
No one on any side of the question should be vilified, intimidated, harassed or subject to erroneous information.
Based on your advocacy of the anti-Mormon Prop 8 video, it seems that you think that the LDS Church was doing exactly that it its support for Prop 8.
Members of the church can advocate on either side of this issue. I personally have no problem with that, and the Church made it clear that it doesn't either. However, if members are disgusted by the Church's position, they don't understand it.
If I had a problem with gay people I would say so. So, let me say clearly I don't have a problem with gays being gay. I have friends who are gay. If you look back over the last few days here on SUMP, you'll notice that my whole point has been that I am concerned about how this would have affected children.
Frank, you're obviously not a "modern, good Mormon."
ReplyDeleteDid the LDS Church really donate 20 million dollars to support Prop 8?
ReplyDeleteJesse,
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, the exit polls (52-48) were in the end almost exactly where it ended up.
UK,
I read one blog where the writer said "No, NO, No, don't distribute this video! That's going to cause people to vote FOR Prop 8!"
I was appreciative of the statement that the LDS Church made yesterday that neither side should be vicious, etc.
Cameron,
I'm proudly anti-modern.
;-)
Anonymous,
No. The Church only paid expenses for some of its leaders to travel to California to coordinate the effort. Other than that, members of the church were encouraged (but not required) to donate. I'm not sure if the amount they donated came to $20 million.
From what I understand, the number is actually greater than 25 million, but it's not clear how much of that came from the Church and how much actually came from Church members after an appeal from Church leaders.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately I think 25 million + the rest of the money thrown at Prop 8 campaigns, for and against, could have done far more good in the world if channeled in a more charitable and Christlike direction....
It's just a pity the Church didn't make that statement when they originally asked their members to get involved. The number of emails I have gotten detailing mobs of angry protestors preventing patrons from entering the Oakland temple (It was actually a peaceful protest by 50 people on a Sunday morning when the Temple was closed) And videos with people crying that a vote against Prop 8 would mean that the Church would be forced to allow same sex marriages in the temple has been astounding, and when I have questioned their validity, I may as well have blasphemed.
ReplyDeleteI'm not excusing the actions of either side, it's just a pity that they both stooped to mistatements of truth designed to induce fear, rather that pointing out actual facts about what the consequences would be. I don't necessarily agree with your viewpoint on Gay Marriage, but I will say that you have discussed the matter rationally, respectfully and honestly.
And the school excuse lost any value with me yesterday, when some Pro 8 parents told their kids about it, who told my kids, and my son got to have the "What Gay means" discussion yesterday. Thanks Pro 8 parents!
I personally am not against gays in any way. I think they have the right to live their lives their own way. But that doesn't mean I think they should be married. I feel that they can have civil marriages. But marriage is between a man and a woman. I think they have the right to go against that and try to get laws passed. But for now as was proven more people in the U.S. feel the same way I do. If there is a time that people all feel differently then I would be ok with it and let it go. But going against and protesting one church is not right, it's being a bully and just trying to scare them. All that is going to come out of this is someone getting killed.
ReplyDelete