Monday, April 16, 2007

How Do You Feel About Gun Control Now?!

This I gotta hear. At least 32 people are dead at Virginia Tech University today, and it's all because only one guy had a gun. So tell, me: how can you still defend gun control?

Update April 17, 2007: Virginia General Assembly voted in 2006 to not allow handguns on campus...


Good thing he finally turned his gun on himself. Bad thing was there were a least 30 other people at Virginia Tech who didn't have the legal authority to defend themselves with equal force.

I think I know what they would say if they had another chance at life.

"Who is the lunatic who thinks that gun control works?"

Not everyone is going to carry a gun if they are legally allowed to. But some will. And with that knowledge, the murderer has a lot more to think about. He may still have gone on his senseless rampage, but chances are there would be a lot more people alive at Virginia Tech today.

Update April 17, 2007: In 2006, a member of the Virginia General Assembly submitted a bill that "would have given qualified college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus." The bill was defeated. Those that defeated the bill were triumphant, because such banning of firearms "will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus" according to a representative from the Virginia Tech campus at the time.

Here are some other interesting facts leading up to yesterday's massacre.

In the spring of 2005, a Virginia Tech student who had a concealed handgun permit was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, the Roanoke paper reported. Second Amendment groups questioned the university's authority, but the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police argued against guns on campus.

In June 2006, Virginia Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy that reaffirmed the school's ban.


27 comments:

  1. How would please handle the incident upon entering a scene where multiple people had guns drawn, some for defense and some for evil intent? How would they know who to shoot? Would innocent people start shooting innocent people in fear? Giving everyone guns is a dumb idea.

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  2. last comment police, not please

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  3. Two responses:

    (1) The likelihood of such a shooting ever occurring would be very low because of the uncertainty of who else might have a gun.

    (2) If the murderer really did have a death wish, they'd likely be dead before the police got there.

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  4. A shooting at a VA law school was cut short a few years ago. That was only because some students had concealed gun permits and went back to their cars to get their guns. They were able to take out the shooter.

    There is no sense to have gun control laws when the innocent are the only ones who will abide by them.

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  5. Or a lot more people dead. This is such a stupid argument that I actually find it fun to read now. Give it up! More guns only help in direct conflict. National Police Dept. statistics show that armed officers have no increased odds in a surprise, or hostage, or sniper situation. What would help is people raising their kids to NOT KILL PEOPLE when they get depressed or dumped by a girl. Our culture is messed up, and trite, boring, ANCIENT pro-gun arguments like yours are not stopping tragedies like this from happening (they also no longer cause them, because most people realize now how idiotic the logic you use here is, even proud gun owners like myself). Get off your high-horse and talk about what REALLY is behind incidents like this. More guns will not stop mal-adjusted, ill-raised, or mentally unstable individuals from acting irrationally, and if they can get a gun, they sho' are gonna use it. DUH! (geez, how many times do I have to 'splain this to you people!)

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  6. I was watching 2News on KJazz and the liberals are already pushing this for gun control. Apparently, VA Tech allows students with gun permits on campus. However, none of those were either in the class or had their gun.

    Anyway, gun control advocates are already using this to get guns out of schools, according to one comment during 2 News' broadcast at 4:00pm. Just imagine what one gun in the hands of one of the victims would have done to change the situation. The death toll would have been a lot less.

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  7. With respect, what you are proposing seems a bit unbalanced - you want *more* guns in schools? What is this, the wild west? Where do you live that you’d need a gun? Why don’t you visit a school in a big city and ask the teachers and staff what they think about your idea?

    And how about some statistics regarding who actually uses guns for self-defense? Most gun owners end up shooting themselves or family, not some boogie man trying to steal their LazyBoy. Do your research!

    Please, stop watching Fox TV, being so afraid, and get out of your houses.

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  8. Hey, that's a great idea! Let's arm everybody, that way no one will shoot each other. What a willfully stupid conclusion to come to..

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  9. Ah, the wild west. I was wondering when someone who had overdosed on Gunsmoke would enter the conversation. The "wild west" theory has been disproven years ago.

    You do make one good point, anonymous. That is that we need to teach our kids not to do the kind of things that get them angry and despondent and want to shoot people, like, hmmmmm, NOT LISTENING TO RAP MUSIC maybe? And stop watching Law and Order, CSI, and other such filth that puts ideas into people's minds.

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  10. Hmmm.... Wasn't the Trolley Square massacre cut short by an off-duty police officer with eight rounds in his handgun? Granted, he had training that most CC permit holders probably lack. And I think I would be more likely to cringe and hide out than to go toward the gunfire. But both the Trolley Square and VA law school shootings show that one or two responsible individuals with firearms can stop a massacre from continuing.

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  11. I was thinking about entitling this post "What Almost Happened at Trolley Square", so I'm glad you bring it up. Unlike Finite's comment (which I would encourage him/her to think over and resubmit) when people are both trained in the use of firearms and in the importance of morality we are much less likely to see massacres like this one.

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  12. Travis,

    Something I heard on The Right Balance this morning interested me along the lines you bring up: in Israel, all instructors are required to have a firearm. These kinds of things don't happen in Israeli schools. (Suicide bombing, however, with someone who already desires death, is another story).

    David,

    If you could find more info about the VA law school shooting I would be interested. I remember it, but not much detail. Did it happen to be at Va Tech? The angle I thought was interesting at the time was that the media did their best to NOT let us know that this one was stopped by someone else who had a gun.

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  13. The incident David referred to occurred on 1/16/2002 at the Appalachian School of Law (see Wikipedia article).

    Note that Wikipedia is devoid of information about the students that used their own firearm in a successful attempt to disarm and apprehend the shooter, a disgruntled Nigerian student. But you can read about it here among other places.

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  14. Thank you for an excellent and important contribution to this conversation. That's just what I was looking for.

    Actually, another article on Wikipedia does mention that two students ran to their vehicles to grab personal firearms.

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  15. 2001: USA GUN DEATHS - 29,000
    2001 UK GUN DEATHS 97

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  16. The best thing we can all do is abolish weapon manufacturing.

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  17. Anonymous,

    Are you THAT same anonymous? Anyway, since you didn't elaborate, where'd you find your stats?

    By the way, color me incredulous...

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  18. With comments like Franks, its no wonder the rest of the world think the USA is a stuffed country. i live in Tasmania Australia. It holds the 'record ' for the most deaths in a single shooting. It horrified us. The only good that came out of it was that guns were banned and guess what, in 11 years the number of gun deaths has dropped.

    But hey Frank and his ilk imagine themselves as real heroes in their sad little lives as they sit in front of the telly polishing their oversize penis

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  19. Pete, Pete, Pete:

    Ouch! You ad'ed my hominem. Ow!

    I knew when this article got picked up by the Guardian that I'd get someone with a filthy pen crossing over to my site. Thanks for not letting me down!

    Your claim that Australian gun deaths are down is interesting. I will try to explore it. If you have some good links, that would be helpful.

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  20. I am not a member of the NRA.
    I do not have a gun in my home. I have three children of university age, with one of them at a university presently.
    Therefore I'm very sympathetic to those parents of Virginia Tech students, as well as fellow students.

    But I am also aware that if one does not possess a gun, then most of one's safety depends entirely on the fact that the criminal DOES NOT know that. They DO know you currently have the right to bear arms, so they do not break into your home carefree.

    If the unlawful KNOW you do not have weapons because you are KNOWN to be a lawful citizen [if weapons become illegal], then there's nothing left to stop them.
    They already know they can break into your home, take your possessions and/or your life, and be gone before the police can respond. And what do you do
    when the police become the unlawful, as during Hitler's time?

    Therefore, are the 99.9% of the American population that did behave themselves this week [gun owners or not] to be rendered unsafe
    because less than one tenth of one percent of the population are psychopathic?

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  21. Thank you for your pertinent observations.

    The fact that we can possess firearms leaves the psychopath to wonder which ones of us will be able to stand up to him with equal force.

    I once challenged a gun-control advocate to place a sign on his front door that said "This home contains no firearms." He didn't take me up on the offer.

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  22. To the Anonymous that is being belligerent. First off, I am a proud gun owner and would like to see anybody try to break into my home, see what happens. What will happen to you if they broke into your home? I just want your theory.
    And to Peter Symonds and Anonymous with the numbers: Your numbers are interesting. Do you have sources to back that up? And it would be interesting to see how many other crimes are committed that might have been prevented if there was a knowledge of a gun possibly being present. If I were a theif, I would feel better about robbing somebody somewhere I knew there wasn't a gun, verses a place like the good ol' US of A (and other places) where I might get shot if I try to rob them, or cause harm to anybody.

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  23. Danny,

    If you were referring to Anonymous of 2 comments ago, I didn't think they were being belligerent. However, if you were referring to the original Anonymous (first comment on this thread) I agree that they were being belligerent.

    You raise an interesting thought in my mind with your comment. That British and Australian gun deaths are allegedly way down--but what about all other sorts of crime? I would expect it to be way up.

    If anyone can point me to some reliable stats/stories, I would appreciate it.

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  24. Frank, I was referring to the original anonymous. The one you refer to as the "anonymous from two comments ago," I totally agree with. Later today, I am going to try to find some numbers on that. If you find them, or anybody else, please post them. I am interested.

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  25. I would like to start by declaring my position on the subject then responding to others' comments. Violence is never the answer but sometimes the required response to others' actions. In the day and time we live in violence is unfortunately on the increase and will not likely decline, so what is the answer? Do we merely post opinions and in some cases ridiculous ones on websites or do we do something? I agree that it starts in the home and our first responsibility is to rear responsible law abiding citizens, but I would venture to say that some of the heated one-sided comments here void of any understanding of others' points of view will not produce such results. Obviously society as a whole tends to be struggling...again I ask, what's the answer? Removing, banning, or destroying guns and/or their manufacturers is not the answer--It runs much deeper than that. I feel we each need to decide for ourselves what is in our power, our realm, and our scope to help our immediate surroundings. If we can decide that--then ACT--we will each undoubtedly help someone if only ourselves. For some that may be becoming a responsible, capable gun-owner. For example, the Trolley Square incident was ended by someone who was trained. For others it may be starting an awareness campaign in one's own town to educate people on what they need to look for--what are signs we can look for to help us recognize when someone is at that breaking point where they will commit such horrible crimes. Whatever your opinion on this matter it means nothing, zip, zilch, zero unless you are willing to do something about it. I will be the first to admit that I have thus far not done anything, but have resolved to take action. I would like be trained to use a gun, not so I can carry one with me all the time, or be some Rambo woman. But the chances of being caught in similar situations as Trolley Square or VA Tech is increasing...think of how beneficial it would be to know how to disarm someone with a gun or if I had a gun to point and shoot without missing. Knowledge about any given subject can only aid you when caught in such situations.
    Now I would like to respond to anonymous....oh, where do I begin with such argumentative, one-sided, hyper opinions? As for the comment about watching too much Fox TV and asking teachers in big cities how they felt about guns. I don't believe anyone was advocating allowing guns on high school campuses b/c, well, that would just be stupid. If you are referring to professors and faculty on college campuses in large cities I would be very interested to hear their response and I don't think it would be one you would expect. Most of the people "packing" in larger cities are "gangsters"....when is the last time you saw a gangster going to college? Maybe you're the one watching a little too much Fox TV!

    I don't think anyone (at least not anyone posting on here) is advocating arming all citizens with guns or even most citizens. But when responsible people are trained in such matters they can be a help if caught in a deadly shoot-out. I'm not sure about you anonymous but I think I would want Frank or Danny in my classroom or shopping in the same store if I were in the middle of such calamity.

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  26. Boy there is a lot of ignorant cowardice around the world.

    Benjamin Franklin stated that "those who would sacrifice essential liberty for temporary safety deserve niether liberty, nor safety".

    As for the anti-gunner statistics, link where you got them from. They are bunk. Anyone can invent statistics.

    Sadly, the media will cover any incident where guns were used irresponsibly, but they will hardly mention an incident where guns were used appropriately. For those that wish to read about Americans protecting themselves every day, go to

    http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

    Also for those that love statistics, go ahead and google crime statistics for concealed weapons permit holders. I am not going to bother linking any statistics for you. Do your own research. If you do, you will realize that law abiding permit holders don't commit violent crime.

    So before you allow your fear and insecurity to dictate how MY RIGHTS should be restricted, maybe you should take a moment to educate yourselves and realize that responsible, armed citizens are a bennefit to society, not a bunch of Billy the Kid wannabe miscreants.

    Brandon

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  27. It is all beside the point, Gun Control is against the Constitution 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed".

    Doesnt say shall not be infringed unless or except when it says SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

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